thus leading to the absurd thread below about F14's and such.

First, there is the Constitution and the rights we have under it.  When framed the 2nd Amendment was about protecting your liberty from all comers.  The Federalist papers specifically describe scenarios where the population would go against a government they were arguing to build.  So built within our right to have arms is this protection of liberty reason.  The conversation about whether we could take the government is an irrelevant one as it pertains to this liberty and government (Federal) action.  To change our 2nd Amendment right fundamentally you MUST amend the Constitution.  Therefore take your "we can't beat the government" argument to the states.  Convince 3/4 of them and amend the Constitution.

Now the second aspect to this is one of Congress' defined role as arbiter of what arms the people may possess.  In this aspect of the argument, Congress could consider such arguments as it wishes.  Even this one about beating the Feds.  The SCOTUS is involved in setting a floor as to what we can have . . . as they did in DC . . . but Congress is master to some degree.

The problems comes in when we hear "take all guns".  This is invariable heard by one side when anything about guns is mentioned.  Although some on the left have explicitly said this (even on the Lounge).  It's all in how your frame the discussion.  If you quaint away the liberty protection issue, then guns are gone for all.  The left knows this.  The real discussion takes place when the left acknowledges the liberty protection aspect, does not belittle it, and the right accepts that Congress has arbitration powers. 

What level of arm do we need to protect our liberty but considering all the aspects brought up (like UFNY's arguments about CDC data and how most firearms are used).  You cannot reasonably claim that your liberty needs nukes to protect it nor can the left claim that because 20 kids were killed you have no right to liberty protection.

As I've said before we have the argument we were meant to have . . . clips, assault rifles . . . even if we distort and belittle the reasons we have it.

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"We're borrowing 10% of GDP each year to get 1-2% growth. That isn't"
an improving economy. We're simply mortgaging the future.